It appears that the Biden administration is steadfastly determined to invest billions into addressing a carbon dioxide non-problem. Ari Natter and Brian Kahn of Bloomberg report on the administration’s decision to sink a cool $3.5 billion into technologies designed to pull carbon dioxide out of the air. But given the nature of carbon dioxide and the energy dynamics involved, one has to wonder: Is this just an expensive venture chasing after a non-issue?
Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm describes the technology as
“essentially a giant vacuum that can suck decades of old carbon pollution straight out of the sky.”
There’s a multiple leaps of faith here: not only in assuming carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is an ‘old pollution’ problem, but also in the hope that this tech can help achieve “net-zero emission goals.” However, I would like to argue, from an energy perspective, this endeavor might prove to be more wasteful than beneficial effective.
Remember our basic energy equations? The energy required to reverse a process is roughly equivalent to the energy that was originally released. Translated into this context: removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere could require as much energy as was released when the fossil fuels were burned in the first place. Doesn’t this seem like a cycle of wasted effort and expenditure?
Granholm suggests that,
“Once operational, the hubs are expected to remove more than 2 million metric tons of carbon dioxide a year from the atmosphere.”
But let’s take a closer look. The largest DAC plant in the world, operated by Swiss startup Climeworks in Iceland, can capture a mere 4,000 tons of CO2 annually. As the report states, this is “equivalent to a few seconds of humanity’s carbon emissions.” The energy and resources put into this, relative to the output, are ludicrously disproportionate.
The article goes on to highlight the considerable energy requirements of these Direct Air Capture (DAC) plants, stating,
“Even with these efforts, DAC remains costly and requires a large amount of energy.”
Here lies the irony: Are we potentially using more energy, perhaps sourced from fossil fuels, to capture a gas that plants use for photosynthesis?
The report leans heavily on global warming predictions, stating that
“Nearly every scenario to limit global warming to 1.5C… will require removing billions of tons of carbon from the atmosphere each year by mid-century.”
However, considering the infinitesimal impact of current DAC projects and the immense costs associated, We are compelled to ask: How badly are we throwing resources at the wrong solution to a nonexistent problem?
In all, while the push for DAC technologies is clear, the practicality, necessity, and feasibility of these solutions are anything but. When one understands the energy dynamics and questions the premise that atmospheric carbon dioxide is even an issue, Biden’s multi-billion dollar gamble seems less like a visionary leap and more like a costly misstep. Instead of costly ventures with dubious returns, it might be wiser to reevaluate our stance on carbon dioxide and refocus our resources more judiciously.
H/T nhasys
Knowing anything about the technology they are pushing cramps their rhetoric.
https://www.wri.org/insights/direct-air-capture-resource-considerations-and-costs-carbon-removal
Good article , SOB
Good article? I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The sh!te article starts with:
As the effects of climate change are increasingly felt through more severe storms, wildfires and flooding, the need to reduce greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions — such as by switching to electric vehicles, deploying solar panels and reducing deforestation — is critical.
From your link:
Additional internal links are to the IEA, “International Energy Agency”, well known for it’s left leaning green fantasies. Like rating a project status “6” instead of a 2 or 3!
Nowhere in the article do they mention that all CCS attempts have failed to date.
Here they describe it as a “prototype”. A prototype dependent upon funding and subsidies, not success.
Maybe governments should do a better job preventing wild fire catastrophes instead.
This is one reason why argumentum ad verecundiam is so important. – so and so says, 97% etc
They can learn simple lines
What you said “We are compelled to ask: How badly are we throwing resources at the wrong solution to a nonexistent problem?”
What the left heard “blah blah blah throwing resources blah blah blah”
Answer: We can do that (for a ‘small” cut)
….. 10% even if we can keep our laptops a bit more secure.
Life on earth. Carbon capture and storage.
esp. Trees
Remember when environmentalists were still-called tree-huggers and we had to stop using paper? Whatever happened to all that, as Scotland cuts down 17 million trees to make way for wind turbines and power lines?
Where are the tree-huggers when you need them? Maybe Greenpeace needs a “back-to-basics” campaign.
Greenpeace is still smarting after their stunt on Sunak’s roof got them booted out of their ‘advisory role’ in government
“”Cancelling Greenpeace contradicts Tory free-speech pledge “”
https://amp.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/10/cancelling-greenpeace-contradicts-tory-free-speech-pledge-but-suits-anti-labour-campaign
Juvenile delinquents
That’s rich coming from the Guardian. They are famous for silencing anyone who disagrees with their editorial positions.
I thought it just what you would expect from a bunch of over privileged idiot middle class Islington journalists
Please don’t insult Islington. It used to be a sensible working-class neighbourhood when I lived there!
_________________________________________________________
If you Google: “How many trees does the Drax power station consume?“
you get the following answer:
Drax burns 27 million trees a year.Dec 6, 2022
Scotland has – by its and international campaigners standards – committed ecocide
well, you know, omelets and all that.
What. Weren’t Drax themselves assuring us all that they only burned ‘waste wood‘ and ‘old pallets‘?
Those are quite big trees, I get to be about 3½ tonnes each
A lot of the weight of a freshly chopped tree is water. Is Drax drying the wood first, or letting it dry naturally over a year or more? Power drying would waste energy, but trying to burn undried wood would also waste energy. You’re a lot closer to Drax’s operation than I am, Peta.
Much as it behoves anyone to burst anyone else’s bubble but: That ‘17 Million trees‘ is a bit ‘less than honest‘
In fact: It is a hideous exaggeration of what A Tree actually is or especially what everyone imagines A Tree to be
Because somewhere buried in the original story/report/article was news of the area of land being used for these new windmills = the ones requiring that the trees be chopped.
I worked it backwards as I always do and it amounted to there having been 2,000 trees on every Hectare of land that the windmills were to occupy
And it worked out that the trees were 2.25 metres apart
Even when you transplant 18″ baby Christmas trees, fresh from their nursery and into the big wide world – you allow them that much room.
By time they’re only 5 years old and 5ft tall they’ve used up all that space
“By time they’re only 5 years old and 5ft tall they’ve used up all that space”
But tree also have height. What if you took that third dimension into account?
https://y.yarn.co/58727297-5a60-404b-8428-5d0b8922fb83.mp4
I take your point, however having spent a lot of time with shotgun and working dogs pushing pheasants out of fir plantations on walked up shoots I can tell you that planting of fir trees at about 2.25 m spacing would be about right – trees grow into each other making passage almost impossible. Then they grow up, devoid of side branches, which I guess makes them ideal as telegraph poles whence many may be destined.
Greenpeace may have been started by hippie environmentalists but some of them were hard core communists who if they ever cared about the environment were more than willing to toss that overboard to advance global communism.
Just imagine what could have been done without the eye-watering costs – on so many levels – of the new religion; globally.
The idea works perfectly for their actual goal, making electricity so expensive that only the rich can afford it.
“…this endeavor might prove to be more wasteful than beneficial.”
___________________________________________________
Might be beneficial? Sequestering carbon dioxide is entirely without merit.
That’s what I was thinking.
Every carbon capture scheme I’ve looked at generated more waste heat than the captured CO2 could ever be responsible for.
I don’t doubt it. Somewhere a CCS input is ignored or intentionally hidden. Do you have a good reference?
Current CCUS process costs are buried in the generation expenses. This is a good overview:
https://climate.mit.edu/explainers/carbon-capture
Thanks. I can seeing capturing CO2 from flue gas when it is utilized. Direct air capture just sucks money from taxpayers and puts it into politician’s and friend’s pockets.
Might as well just burn paper money and cut out the middle-man.
It’s not his money, Biden doesn’t care. When it fails, he’ll laugh about it like Obama did his failed “investments”.
I care guarantee that Bribem and the rest of leeches will get metric tons of OPM from this.
yes of course that is the whole point of this. Billions in graft for cronies.
If only it would be possible to get them to declare it a success and we only need to waste a few billion. But alas no. It will be these billions layered on top of the trillions.
You know, the bad part in all of this is, if temperatures “continue to rise“ they will continue to say they need more and more money because the problem isn’t solved yet, and they will continue to clamp down on free markets and the freedoms we all enjoy. If on the other hand, we start to move into another ice, or cooling, they will say look how successful we were, see we were right.
Except that it won’t alter the atmospheric CO2 ppm even the slightest.
oh you underestimate their sophistry. Haven’t you heard of Nick Stokes? Even if CO2 starts going up faster than before, they would still be claiming that their tech has nearly reversed the tipping point that was in play. Just redouble and retreble the effort. We have more cronies to grease.
I’m coming around to believing that CO2 is (like methane) entirely driven by the biosphere and humans barely play a bit part. Still unresolved is whether the CO2 is responsible for warming, or the other way around. I suspect the latter.
About 10 years ago, an academic friend asked if I would evaluate a few student proposals for environmental research. I said, okay, except I would not spend time looking at removal of CO2 from the atmosphere. I said it was “nuts” or something like that, and neither he nor I ought to waste time reading and commenting on them.
“Scale”, like “Deep Time” are difficult concepts.
What it is is crazy! We need more, not less CO2. It’s plant food, for heaven’s sake! The more we have, the better. We came perilously close to running out of CO2, so I’m happy we began to spew out so much CO2, and we need to keep right on doing so. The Chinese and Indians, and Russia aren’t stupid, they know that CO2 doesn’t control the climate, and they’re laughing themselves silly watching us make fools of ourselves by thinking it does.
but, but…. aren’t they going to store the CO2 for use by future generations?
To a honest engineer, a back of the envelop calculation shows that carbon capture is a dead end approach because of the high cost of capturing the CO2. You would want to remove the nitrogen or you need to pay the cost of storing it along with the CO2. In either case, the additional processing cost would approach or exceed the power generated.
Unfortunately they either haven’t heard of a small scale test before spending massive amounts of money or they figure the next administration won’t continue the project so they go big to have an accomplishment on their resume. After all, look at how Biden took credit for ending COVID. even though the vaccine was ready while Trump was still in office. By the way, Biden knew it was ready but Trump wasn’t told.
The three states of spending money.
Unfortunately our government is number 3 to the tune of over 30 trillion dollars.
“…costly ventures with dubious returns.” That all depends on what percentage of the $3.5 billion goes to the “Big Guy.”
Which companies are benefiting from this boondoggle? Any connections to Joe?
I heard this morning that Special Counsel, Weis, the one supposedly investigating Hunter Biden, once worked with Bo Biden, Joe’s other son, on legal issues.
This, on top of everything else that stinks about Weis being in charge, should motivate Republicans to get Weis off the case.
Joe, do you mean The Big Guy 10% Joe “Biden Brand” Brandon? If he stays in office much longer I’m going to run out of ink in describing him and his son Crackhunter.
Yep :<)
The alarmists will love it. I wonder what the cost per vote will work out to be and how it compares to the Inflation Reduction Act?
Sadly, foolish people beget foolish leaders and politicians.
“Sadly, foolish people beget foolish leaders and politicians.”
Ain’t that the truth….
Speaking of which. What has happened to Trumps big press release where he was going to prove election fraud in Georgia? I was looking forward to sorting this out once and for all….
Still pushing the Russian Colluuuuuusion hoax?
How about that Alfa Bank hoax, that was good one.
I didn’t mention the Russian hoax. I’ve moved on. You should to. So much to keep up with…
The Russia Hoax was a lie, so moving on would be the thing to do for you.
As for Trump supporters, we are not moving on, we want justice for Trump for putting him and all his supporters and the country through the Russia Hoax, which means jailing/shaming his persecutors.
Tom, you do know there were 34 indictments from the Russia investigation. That is hardly nothing. In comparison how many indictments have there been for the Hunter Biden investigation? I think it was 1 at last count. And yet you will say the Russian investigation was rubbish(done by a republican) and the Hunter B one fair (also done by a republican). Imagine if the Russia one was done by a Democrat?
Simon, it was a voice in your head that made that up. Sorted for you.
You’re welcome.
“Simon, it was a voice in your head that made that up. Sorted for you.”
Nope Trump was going to make a big annoucement… https://nj1015.com/trump-plans-major-announcement-monday-in-nj/
Monday comes after Sunday over here Simon
I think you might be just a little behind….. You see he has cancelled his big reveal which is sssssuuuuucccchhhhh a shame. I was genuinely looking forward to it.
“Postponed” would be a better descripiton of what Trump did.
I hear the My Pillow Guy is making another effort to cast doubt on the 2020 election.
He didn’t do such a good job last time, but he did show the numbers of illegal votes that were cast in the Battleground States that gave Biden the election. He had the votes sorted out in categories like “dead people” voting, and people who no longer lived in that precinct voting, and votes without proper signatures, and on and on.
What we know for sure is that enough illegitimate votes were cast to have swung the election either way. Like in Georgia, the difference between winning and losing was less that 12,000 votes. There were more than 12,000 illegitimate votes cast in the Georgia election.
What we don’t know and will never know, is for whom those illegitimate votes were cast. If they were all cast for Joe Biden, then he stole the election with illegitmate votes.
We can’t change the outcome, but we can do something about 2024. We better do something or these damn radical Democrats will steal our country from us. They are well on the way to doing so right now with their attacks on Trump.
Electing Trump again will be the slap-down the radical Democrats need. Let’s give them a most painful slap. Let’s watch them whine and cry as their socialist paradise comes to an end.
God help us if this doesn’t happen.
Absolutely right. Rigging elections is treason.
“Absolutely right. Rigging elections is treason”
Exactly right which is why he (Trump) should at the very least go to prison for his mindlessly stupid fake electors scheme.
“What we know for sure is that enough illegitimate votes were cast to have swung the election either way.”
That is not true Tom. This has been looked at numerous times and if you listen to the infamous phone call with Raffensburger (the republican) it is made plain to Trump at the time that these claims are false.
“They are well on the way to doing so right now with their attacks on Trump.”
A key question that should be answered now… If Trump is guilty of these crimes, should he be treated like every other citizen and be held accountable, or do you think he should be let off?
If you had pulled your cabesa out of the Fake News, you might have seen Trump’s announcement that he postponed it.
“If you had pulled your cabesa out of the Fake News,”
I bet I read a whole lot more of news from the political right than you do from the left…. Just saying.
We knew Grenholm was intellectually deficient before she proved it here.
“essentially a giant vacuum that can suck decades of old carbon pollution straight out of the sky.”
Love that scientific talk.
CO2 is NOT pollution, for goodness sake!
Good article over on the burning platform about why the incompetence rules supreme:
https://www.theburningplatform.com/2023/08/20/gaslighting-on-a-civilizational-scale/
From the above article:
“Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm describes the technology as
‘essentially a giant vacuum that can suck decades of old carbon pollution straight out of the sky’. ”
Well, there’s no surprise that such an idiotic statement comes from Granholm.
Summarizing Granholm’s education and career as provided in Wikipedia:
She attended the University of California, Berkeley, graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree in 1984 and then a Juris Doctor from Harvard Law School. She then clerked for Judge Damon Keith of the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit, became an assistant U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan in 1991 and in 1995 she was appointed to the Wayne County Corporation Counsel. Thereafter, she was a career politician (becoming Michigan’s first female governor), a book author, and most recently a political commentator on TV before being given her current post in the Biden administration.
There is NOTHING in Jennifer Granholm’s published listing of education and career experience that indicates she has even rudimentary understanding of what’s involved with the physics, technology and math associated with atmospheric “pollution” mitigation and the potential adverse—yes, adverse—consequences of such.
NASA’s and NOAA’s very own admissions are that increasing CO2 levels have lead to Earth having increased vegetative cover and increased food crop yields (see https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2016/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth and this more-recent update https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/climate-change/earth-getting-greener-nasa-s-new-maps-confirm-69361 ).
This is so stupid. Take those billions of dollars and build nuclear power plants. They don’t emit CO2, they provide clean, affordable and reliable energy plus they earn money rather than cost money.
Shame that they don’t produce CO2! Just when we need so much MORE of it!
I like CO2. I think the thing we need to consider is how lucky we are that CO2 is on the way to doubling instead of the reverse. We would really be up a creek without a paddle if it were in the process of halving. Then we would be goners.
Santee Cooper spent $9bn on a nuclear power plant in SC before they abandoned it.
According to media reports, Georgia power will have spent $35bn to add two reactors to Plant Vogtle.
You need to tell me more about this. Wasn’t there shenanigans going on at Westinghouse? I believe there were irregularities at Santee Cooper and possibly Scana as well. Westinghouse was also the problem at Georgia power was it not? Georgia power chose to go forward where Santee Cooper and Scana chose not to. If we can remove the politics, scare tactics and criminal element interfering with nuclear it will be a big part of our future.
Granholm has all the qualifications needed to be a member of Drooling Crooked Joe Bribem’s cabinet: she’s an idiot.
The above statement is inapt with regard to removing CO2 from the atmosphere. No one is contemplating recreating the fossil fuels that produced the CO2 in the first place.
They are typically talking about making the precursor to Portland cement, another well-known source of CO2. However, contrary to your claim, there are many people working on making fuels from CO2, such as: https://scitechdaily.com/more-efficient-than-natural-photosynthesis-new-photocatalytic-system-converts-carbon-dioxide-into-valuable-fuel/
Well, if you want to split hairs, I guess you can, but the subject at hand was carbon sequestration, not making biofuels or renewable fuels or related technology. Sequestration means storage, and storing CO2 by converting back into a hydrocarbon is something I’m sure no one is contemplating. The author was arguing that sequestration is prohibitive because you’d have to supply all the energy that was liberated when the fossil fuels were burned in the first place. Well, you don’t, and no one developing CO2 sequestration technology is planning to do it by converting it back into hydrocarbons. So, what I should have said was, no one is contemplating recreating fossil fuels that produced the CO2 in the first place as a means of carbon sequestration.
Which I responded to with my remark about Portland cement.
But, extracting it from the air, and converting it to something that doesn’t have the warming potential of CO2, is a form of sequestration.
Imagine how many schools, roads, hospitals, and research projects, etc etc etc could be funded with that money. The opportunity costs are depressing. All the valid projects that could be funded and we spend our money on this nonsense. If you want to remove CO2 from the atmosphere…plant a tree.
Fools chasing their variant of a utopia running an open ended experiment that could kill all of us. They have no clue what reducing CO2 would do to the planet with our current population of eight billion. We could have massive crop failures due to less CO2 in the atmosphere for one thing if this rube goldberg scheme works.
Carbon capture and storage is an excellent example of the failure of modern education that is so often mentioned.
We have lost some ability to conduct cost:benefit analysis for projects in general. The standard of cost:benefit work has declined. Top projects might get decent treatment still, but more projects than before are getting bad studies that often seem to allow bad projects to go ahead.
We have even reached the poor state where politicians or bureaucrats can decide that cost:benefit studies are not needed for this project or that.
People are losing the important concept that cost:benefit, done well and properly, is rather vital for mankind to progress. There is next to no value in allowing projects to proceed simply because they fulfil an “ambition” of policy makers. (That is happening). Geoff S
When you sequester CO2 you are sequestering the O2 as well. Not sure thats a really good idea since green plants that sequestered all the carbon already in the ground don’t do that. But I’m sure Biden has thought it all through. What possibly could go wrong?
It’s good to describe why their stated policies won’t work and are wasteful, but always keep in mind the real goal of this sort of thing: to enrich the Democrat Party and their friends/allies. That’s pretty much it. They do not care a single bit if it accomplishes anything other than that, and will gladly make the exact opposite arguments tomorrow if they thought doing that advanced the “enrich us and our friends” goal.
However, it is always larger!
Biden Administration corruption is dependent upon spending absurd levels of tax dollars on nonsense. All the better to siphon off wealth to the democrats and uniparty legislators and friends.
Billions sent to Ukraine have been shown to disappear. Usage or expenditures are unsupported by documentation.
The same will happen from most projects in the IRA (Ignorant ridiculous donkey relatives).